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>| Well, at the risk of provoking some screaming and yelling, let me
>| observe that there is a better antibiotic for rosacia, called
>| metronidazole.  It can be taken orally, or applied topically as a gel
>| (Metrogel).  When taken orally for long periods it can cause
>| (reversible) neuropathy.  It also has an antabuse like effect on some
>| people, so you cannot drink while taking it orally.  It’s cheap,
>| especially by mail order, or in Mexico.
>|  
>|                                                   Steve Harris, M.D.

>  I’ve done well on topical Metrogel, at least it seems to have reduced
>  the need for Tetracycline.
>  I have a question for Dr. Harris.  Why isn’t Accutane used for
>  Rosacea?  Is the dermopathology different in Rosacea vs regular acne?
>  Along the same lines why isn’t Retin A a useful drug?
>  Thanks,
>  Tom

The dermatopathology IS different in rosacea, but as yet nobody knows
why the metronidazole works better.  Maybe an anaerobic bacterium is
involved (although metronidazole is useful in all kinds of other strange
skin conditions where microbial involve seems unlikely).  And I don’t
know why accutate isn’t used in rosacea.

                                              Steve Harris, M.D.

>Not quite true, Paul. There are definite genetic markers for certain
>types of disease, and certain types of cancer are among them. This
>sounds like an interesting project for someone – I’d love to see
>someone with Li-Fraumeni syndrome be diagnosed with the `seed for
>cancer’ by one of your TCM quacks – I’m certain you couldn’t do
>it. And if you could, just what specific ‘healin’ do you recommend for
>that particular mutation of the p53 gene, eh Paul? Ice cream, to
>reduce the Heat?

Comment: on the diagnositic side, it is interesting that we now have
something (the anti-malignan antibody serum test, or AMAS test) which is
nearly what Paul is promising.  Only it appears to be for real.  Now if
we could just locate and kill the little tumors as well…

                                             Steve Harris, M.D.

: A few questions. Who is Adelle Davis, and is there some book or work
: or hers that would be relevant?

This is from "Let’s Get Well" by Adelle Davis:  "Adelle Davis, one of the
country’s best known nutritionists, studied at Purdue University,
graduated from the University of California at Berkeley, and took
postgraduate studies at Columbia University and the University of
California at Los Angeles before receiving her Master of Science degree
in biochemistry from the University of Southern California Medical School.
Throughout her career she has worked with physicians, beginning in New
York with dietetics training at Bellevue and Fordham hospitals and her
first position at the Judson Health Clinic.
        Later, in Oakland, California, and then in Los Angeles, she was
employed as a consulting nutritionist with physicians at the Alameda
County Health Clinic and the William E. Branch Clinic in Hollywood, as
well as seeing patients referred to her by numerous specialists. After
planning individual diets for more than 20,000 people suffering from
almost every known disease, she gave up consulting to devote her time to
her family, writing, and lecturing.
        Adelle Davis, who in private life is Mrs. Frank Seiglinger, is
the mother of two children and lives near Los Angeles. She is the author
of four bestselling books, "Let’s Cook it Right", "Let’s Have Healthy
Children", "Let’s Get Well", and "Let’s Eat Right to Keep Fit."
*****************************************************
Adelle Davis died maybe 20 years ago. She was the sister of Ann B. Davis
from the "Brady Bunch" tv show and the Bob Cummings show. Adelle also
wrote a book about her LSD experiences. Peter Stafford wrote:  "’Jane
Dunlap’ (nutritionist Adelle Davis) is a similar affirmation of a journey
to the dark side of the moon and back. Intrigued by Wasson’s account in
"Life", Ms. Dunlap volunteered as an experimental subject when a
long time doctor friend began studying LSD-25. "

Adelle Davis probably was more responsible for the creation of the health
food movement than any other person, and she was extremely hounded and
persecuted.

: If the problem is an undersupply of Vitamin B2, is it a simple matter
: of trying an increasing amount of B2 and observing?

Yes. 100 to 200 mgs daily seems to be the right amount and it needs to be
taken in equal amounts together with vitamin b6 or you could get a b6
deficiency. Vitamin e oil put on the area could also be of help and has a
similar function, (preserving oxygen).

: What sort of practitioner could best guide me through this, or is that
: necessary?

I don’t know of anyone but wouldn’t be surprised if there are some.

: If bacterial infection, can you suggest alternatives?

Mega doses of vitamin c, (also an anti-oxidant) is good against bacterial
infections and also helps to strengthen the blood vessels. Bioflavinoids
are good for that purpose combined with vitamin c.

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In article <00385DA8…@pop.com> p_iann…@pop.com (Paul Iannone) writes:
> : >No Paul, the cause is not ‘Heat’. ‘Heat’ does not exist, any more than
> : >your Liver Channels or your Triple Warmers. Things that don’t exist
> : >are limited in their effects to psychosomatic disorders.
> : >
> : >> ‘Unknown’ in relationship to the word ’cause’ is conventional
> : >>medicine’s way of never having to say you’re sorry.
> : >>
> : >
> : >Using the words ‘Heat’ and ‘Cool’ for every disorder under the sign is
> : >your way of saying that you haven’t the foggiest notion of how the
> : >physical universe really works.
> : >
> : >sdb

> Which sign is that, sbd? The Triple Warmer and the Liver Channel both exist just
> fine.

Oh really? Then please explain why the liver channel and the triple
warmer have never been found during an autopsy?

> It is your inability to cluster phenomena in any manner other than that
> provided by materialist physiology that is the problem.

Not at all Paul. It is your totally inappropriate application of tools
to phenomena that they are designed to explore which is the
problem. Science is a great way to understand the physical world. Art
and religion are ways to approach man’s spiritual essence and deal
with some of the great questions of life which have no objective
answer. Certainly the practice of medicine should involve an
appreciation for the human spirit, but that doesn’t mean medicine has
to explain it to be valid. I would *love* to hear the ETH explanation
for Picasso.

> Is a Picasso a variety
> of squiggles on paper, a half an ounce of pencil shavings and cellulose? No, it
> is an artwork that exists as it is, without regard to whether a computer
> sampling the paper can find a Picasso-ness in a square inch of that paper. You
> ignore, deride, and discount a great variety of the phenomena of the existence
> of the body, and yet you have no comprehensive view of that phenomena–which
> doesn’t seem to trouble you.

I’m not troubled by sciences inability to explain why or why not
Picasso’s work moves us because that is not the role of
science. Specifically, that is not the role of medical science. The
role of medical science is to cure people like Picasso of cancer so
that they can continue to explore the other side of humanity and to
cure people like me of cancer (should I ever get it) so I can enjoy
Picasso.

Incidentally, some of the finest medical people have a wonderful
appreciation for art, many of them practice it extremely well. I know
several doctors who play string quartets in their spare time and would
make many a professional musician squint in envy. Unlike you, they
have an understanding of what to use to plumb the depths of the soul
and don’t try to bend science to purposes for which it was never
intended. They also don’t bring their violins to the surgical
ward. When everything looks like a nail, just apply ETH, eh Paul?

> What is a syndrome but a cluster of hitherto unrelated complaints in which a
> pattern was eventually seen? The physical existence of a Triple Warmer (which is
> a lousy translation for the ‘Three Transformative Spaces’) is not the point, and
> really never has been the point. Acupuncture has never been based on
> physicality.

Ah, a point of agreement. You’re right – acupuncture and TCM and ETH
are not based on anything that actually exists in the physical
universe. Fine. We are in agreement. This is why it bears a similarity
to religion, which is also based on stuff that doesn’t exist in the
physical universe. So if you want to practice your religion, fine. If
you want to claim that it can effect the physical universe by curing
cancer then this part of it can and should be validated
scientifically.

> Take cancer. Before the cancer, there was cancer. You just couldn’t see it, test
> it, validate it, but you know in retrospect it was there. Technology doesn’t
> exist to ‘predict it,’ in the absence of a biopsy.

Not quite true, Paul. There are definite genetic markers for certain
types of disease, and certain types of cancer are among them. This
sounds like an interesting project for someone – I’d love to see
someone with Li-Fraumeni syndrome be diagnosed with the `seed for
cancer’ by one of your TCM quacks – I’m certain you couldn’t do
it. And if you could, just what specific ‘healin’ do you recommend for
that particular mutation of the p53 gene, eh Paul? Ice cream, to
reduce the Heat?

> But it was there, a seed. It
> started somewhere. We can call that seed by a name, like ‘Heat,’ and look for
> any signs that seemed to precede the arrival of the physical, palpable, testable
> cancer, and attempt to Clear them away before the cancer arises fully. Not only
> would that be sane, that would be wise. Not only that–that is already wise, and
> has been for two thousand years.

Wise? There are more things in heaven and earth than are conceived of
by your pathetic Chinese philosophy, oh magical healer. What is the
TCM cure for inherited disease, Paul?  Presumably there is no
inherited disease in China, no Li-Fraumeni syndromes because the
parents were ‘healed’. Exactly how do you guys `heal’
autosomal-dominant disorders? Do you do it differently from
autosomal-recessive disorders?  Modern science breathlessly awaits
your wisdom.

sdb
—
s…@ssr.com

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>Take cancer. Before the cancer, there was cancer. You just couldn’t see
it, test
>it, validate it, but you know in retrospect it was there. Technology
doesn’t
>exist to ‘predict it,’ in the absence of a biopsy. But it was there, a
seed. It
>started somewhere. We can call that seed by a name, like ‘Heat,’ and
look for
>any signs that seemed to precede the arrival of the physical, palpable,
testable
>cancer, and attempt to Clear them away before the cancer arises fully.
Not only
>would that be sane, that would be wise. Not only that–that is already
wise, and
>has been for two thousand years.

>–Paul  ||  p_iann…@pop.com

ROFL.  I’ll bet it has.  The number of people who’ve been told they have
the seed of cancer but that it can be taken away by appropriate Chinese
spells before it actually manifests, is probably staggering.  Great way
to make a living.

                                             Steve Harris, M.D.

ROFL. Spoken by the man who does not apologize for anything and always
thinks that he is right. The word "sorry" does not exist in Paul’s
vocabulary except for "other" people.

Aloha,

Rich

Which sign is that, sbd? The Triple Warmer and the Liver Channel both exist just
fine. It is your inability to cluster phenomena in any manner other than that
provided by materialist physiology that is the problem. Is a Picasso a variety
of squiggles on paper, a half an ounce of pencil shavings and cellulose? No, it
is an artwork that exists as it is, without regard to whether a computer
sampling the paper can find a Picasso-ness in a square inch of that paper. You
ignore, deride, and discount a great variety of the phenomena of the existence
of the body, and yet you have no comprehensive view of that phenomena–which
doesn’t seem to trouble you.

What is a syndrome but a cluster of hitherto unrelated complaints in which a
pattern was eventually seen? The physical existence of a Triple Warmer (which is
a lousy translation for the ‘Three Transformative Spaces’) is not the point, and
really never has been the point. Acupuncture has never been based on
physicality.

We are wired up with correlations that don’t appear physically. You can assign
symbols to these hologramic aspects, and actually act on those symbols–and, lo
and behold, they act just like things.

‘Heat’ is one of those symbols, and not a particularly hard one to observe. And,
surprise, it can be removed, Cleared away. And, surprise, when you remove it,
the persons ACTUAL physical complaint goes away. Instead, M.D.’s always say:
you’re not sick, come back when you’re sick. Very unsatisfying, very myopic.

Take cancer. Before the cancer, there was cancer. You just couldn’t see it, test
it, validate it, but you know in retrospect it was there. Technology doesn’t
exist to ‘predict it,’ in the absence of a biopsy. But it was there, a seed. It
started somewhere. We can call that seed by a name, like ‘Heat,’ and look for
any signs that seemed to precede the arrival of the physical, palpable, testable
cancer, and attempt to Clear them away before the cancer arises fully. Not only
would that be sane, that would be wise. Not only that–that is already wise, and
has been for two thousand years.

–Paul  ||  p_iann…@pop.com

–

Don’t even bother.

   >A few questions. Who is Adelle Davis, and is there some book or work
   >or hers that would be relevant?

She’s a long-dead vitamin pusher who churned out popular books in the 60’s.
Her "science" is ridiculous.

   >If the problem is an undersupply of Vitamin B2, is it a simple matter
   >of trying an increasing amount of B2 and observing? What sort of
   >practitioner could best guide me through this, or is that necessary?

Don’t waste your time.

   >If bacterial infection, can you suggest alternatives?

If tetracycline is working for you, and you’re not having problems,
why change?

–
Steve Dyer
d…@ursa-major.spdcc.com

  I’ve done well on topical Metrogel, at least it seems to have reduced
  the need for Tetracycline.
  I have a question for Dr. Harris.  Why isn’t Accutane used for
  Rosacea?  Is the dermopathology different in Rosacea vs regular acne?
  Along the same lines why isn’t Retin A a useful drug?
  Thanks,
  Tom

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>Les C. Cseh (lc…@io.org) wrote:
>: In the absence of alternatives, I have been taking Tetracycline to
>: control Rosascia (I don’t know if I’ve spelled it correctly … this
>: is a condition where I have very red cheeks and something like acne
>: constantly, presumably connected to feeling flushed, possibly from coffee,
>: spice, alcohol, etc.). Tetracycline has been the only thing thus far
>: to control the condition (at least the acne).

>: Besides continuing to clean up my diet, can anyone suggest an
>: alternative to Tetracycline? Any other suggestions?

>According to Adelle Davis, acne rosacea is similar to blood shot eyes.
>Vitamin b2 is responsible for carrying oxygen to the eyes. When b2 is
>undersupplied, the eyes form blood vessels to supply the oxygen to them,
>giving the blood-shot appearance. This also can happen with the
>skin–which causes rosacea. It also could be from bacterial infection.
>Alcohol can produce it also.

Thanx … you’ve given me a few things to pursue.

A few questions. Who is Adelle Davis, and is there some book or work
or hers that would be relevant?

If the problem is an undersupply of Vitamin B2, is it a simple matter
of trying an increasing amount of B2 and observing? What sort of
practitioner could best guide me through this, or is that necessary?

If bacterial infection, can you suggest alternatives?

tia,

lcc.